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你並不殘缺 / You're Not Broken (麥克.尼爾&艾妮塔.穆札尼)


"You're Not Broken"   with Michael Neill & Anita Moorjani

(Podcast on Caffeine for the Soul 10-12-2016)  
http://caffeineforthesoul.libsyn.com/anita-moorjani-part-three-youre-not-broken
My gratitude to Michael and Anita for their permission to translate and share this inspiring conversation. 
                                                               
知名的人生教練作者麥克.尼爾 (Michael Neill) 和艾妮塔.穆札尼的訪談,分成幾個播客(podcast)在麥克的「心靈咖啡因」網頁上播放。我特別喜歡這個主題-「你並不殘缺」,因為深信這是許多人不能愛自己的障礙。感謝得到麥克和艾妮塔的允許,將這段對話譯出分享。

M: Good morning, Good afternoon, Good evening. Welcome to today’s Caffeine for the Soul. We’ve been talking all week with Anita Moorjani. She is the New York Times bestselling author of “Dying To Be Me”, and her new book is “What If This Is Heaven - How Our Cultural Myths Prevent Us from Experiencing Heaven On Earth.” And today we talk about this idea that you are not broken. Many of you know that was my first big insight into the human condition was to realize that I wasn’t fundamentally broken and I didn’t need to be fixed. That’s what Anita and I talk about. I think you are going to enjoy this one. It’s back down to our normal espresso size. Enjoy !

麥克: 早安,午安,晚安。觀迎收聽今天的「心靈咖啡因」。這一整個星期我們都在和艾妮塔.穆札尼對談。她是紐約時報暢銷書「死過一次才學會愛」,以及新書「也許這裏就是天堂   - 文化迷思阻斷了人間天堂之路」(暫譯)的作者。今天我們要談一談「你並不殘缺」這個觀念。很多人知道這是我對人性的首要領悟 - 我並不殘缺,我不需要被修復。這是我和艾妮塔所談的主題,我想你們會喜歡這段對話。我們再次以精簡的「濃縮咖啡」方式播放呈現,請享用!


M: Another one of the myths that I really resonated with was I Am Not OK, You Are Not OK. The way that I heard that is I don’t need to be fixed. 

麥克: 另外一個我很認同的迷思是「我有問題,你也有問題」(譯者註: 這是艾妮塔新書「也許這裏就是天堂」[暫譯] 裏談到的一個迷思)。我的了解是 - 我不需要被修復。

A: Yes.

艾妮塔: 沒錯。

M: That to me seems so fundamental to the whole mythology of self-help and spiritual development is, you know, the difference between, hey, you are fundamentally a mess, but we can fix you, and you’re fundamentally God in human form and we can kind of scrape away some of the crap that’s accumulated on top of you. Could you speak to that?

麥克: 我認為這是整個心理自助和心靈成長的迷思所在,兩者的區別是,一個是你骨子裏本身就有問題,不過我們可以把你修好; 另一個是你基本上是有神性的肉身,我們只要將你身上不好的東西除掉就行了。你可以談談這個嗎?

A: Yes. So basically I believe that one of the issues we are facing right now is we are facing a culture that has really gone deep into the whole self-help phenomena, and so we have created a whole generation of people all of whom believe that they are broken and they need to be fixed. And I think this is not just the phenomenon of the self-help generation. It’s also there’s a lot of people who have strong religious beliefs all of whom believe that they are broken just because they are here in physical form.

艾妮塔: 好的。基本上我認為我們面臨的一個問題是,心理自助的現象已深入我們所處的文化裏,造就了這一代深信自己是殘缺,需要被修復的人。而且我認為不只是心理自助的世代現象而已。還有很多有強烈宗教信仰的人,他們相信只是因為他們有肉身,他們就是殘缺的。

But I honestly don’t believe any of us are broken. None, not me, not anybody. And I believe the problem is in believing we are broken and that we need to be fixed. That is actually the root of the problem for many people. So I kind of look at it from that way around.

但我真的不認為我們有誰是殘缺的。沒有人,不是我,不是任何人。我相信問題出在我們認為我們是殘缺的,我們需要被修復。這是很多人的問題徵結所在,所以我要從這個角度來看。

In actuality, we are all beautiful; we are all perfect; we are all on a journey. And sometimes the journey can be difficult, and sometimes the journey is easy. But what makes our life harder is that whenever the journey gets tough, we think we are broken, and that’s a big problem. Because there are so many things that we come across on our path which maybe these things are to take us to the next level, maybe there is a purpose we are supposed to go through a little bit of a challenge here and a little bit of suffering there. It all adds up to the experience.

事實上,我們都很美麗,我們都是完美的,我們都走在一個旅程上。有時走得比較辛苦,有時比較容易。但是每當路變得比較難走時,我們就認為自己有缺陷,這是個大問題。因為這一路上我們會碰到很多事情,有些事也許是為了讓我們更上一層樓,也許是為了一個目的,我們就是要經過一些挑戰,吃一些苦。這些都是人生的體驗。

Of course you are going to feel pain when you go through a devastating journey of some kind. Of course you are going to feel a bit of fear and things like that, but what adds to it is the judgment of yourself that oh, my God, why am I going through this, I’ve had all this help, I’ve done all this work on myself and yet I’m still doing it. There is something wrong with me, I still haven’t fixed it. I still haven’t got it. What is it? Or we feel a bit of fear about something instead of embracing the fear so that it can pass or accepting this is where I am now and allow it to pass. We start to feel the fear. We kind of go, oh my gosh, I’m not supposed to feel this fear, fear is bad for me because I’m attracting 
the situation to me because of the fear.

當你走過一段艱辛的路時,當然你會覺得痛苦,當然你會覺得有點害怕。但雪上加霜的是你加之於自己的評斷  哦,天哪,我為什麼要經歷這些; 我尋求了所有的幫助,我做了那麼多功課,但是我依然如此。我是那裏不對勁,我還是沒有解決問題,我還是沒弄懂。到底是怎麼一回事? 或者我們覺得有點害怕,但不能接受這個感覺讓它過去,不能接受這是我目前的狀況,讓事情自然過去。我們開始感到恐懼,會這樣想 哦,我的天,我不應該恐懼,恐懼是不好的,因為它會招來不幸。

M: Can’t afford the luxury of negative thought.

麥克: 禁不起自己有負面的思想。

A: Yes, exactly. We start to think things like that. And we start judging ourselves, and we start fearing our thoughts, and it gets us into an even bigger mess. So I like to work on the premise, no, where you are right at this minute. Let’s start with this is perfect. This is where you are meant to be right now. You are meant to be experiencing exactly what you are experiencing and I know it might be hard but let’s start with loving yourself, loving yourself, and not criticizing, judging, hating, watching your thoughts, all that kind of stuff, because each of those things is a judgment against who you are.

艾妮塔:  沒錯,我們開始有這些想法。我們開始評斷自己,害怕自己的思想,把情況弄得更糟。所以我要改變這個前提 錯了,此時此刻的你,讓我們認同這就是最佳狀況,我們從這裏開始。你命中註定要處於此時此刻,你命中註定要經歷你現在經歷的事。我知道這會有點辛苦,但讓我們從愛自己開始,愛你自己,不要批評、衡量、厭惡你自己,不要觀照思想,因為這每一個動作都是在評斷你自己。

Even the whole thing I have to watch my thoughts, the message you are sending yourself is, my thoughts are not good enough, my mind is not good enough to come up with the right thing so I have to watch it. What happens is you don’t allow your authenticity to come through. And what I am trying to do is... Ideally, what I would like is for you to know that who you are at your core, your authentic self, is perfect. It is perfect. So let’s just uncover a few things that are preventing that from shining through.

即使是觀照思想這件事,它意味著我的思想是有問題的,我的想法不夠好所以我需要注意它。這樣做的結果是,你不允許你呈現真正的自己。我希望幫助你們明白,你的本性,你真正的自我是完美無瑕的,我們只需要去發現一些阻擋你光芒的障礙物

M: And in the work you’ve been doing over the last 10 years, have you sort of gotten to the point where you see some pretty consistent patterns of what people used to cover them up ?

麥克: 在你過去十年的工作中,你是否發現一些我們阻擋自己光芒的模式?

A: Yes, sorry I said that before you finished your sentence.

艾妮塔:  是的,抱歉,沒讓你把話說完。

M: You knew where I was going… It was the obvious question. Let’s be honest.

麥克: 你知道我要說什麼你已經猜到我的問題了。

A: Yes. One of the patterns I see a lot is where people are constantly asking themselves why am I not getting it, why am I not getting it, and I just feel like hugging them and telling them - Darling, just love yourself where you are now. That’s the only thing you are not getting. That is the only thing. Just stop, stop criticizing yourself, stop beating yourself up, stop trying even to figure it out. Just stand right here; give yourself a big hug. Let me give you a big hug. That’s all. That’s all there is to it.

艾妮塔:  是的。其中一個我常看到的模式是,我們經常會問自己 - 「為什麼我還弄不懂,為什麼我還不明白」。我只想給他們一個擁抱告訴他們 親愛的,你只需要愛你現在的自己,這是唯一你還不明白的事。只有這件事。不要再評斷你自己,責備自己,甚至不要再去了解它。你只需要安於現在,給你自己一個大大的擁抱。讓我也給你一個大擁抱。你只需要這樣,如此而已。

M: I member reading the book. It is called “Learning to Love Yourself” by Gay Hendricks years ago in the 80’s. I remember there was this one exercise. The only one that got through to me where it was - Can you love yourself as you are now? And my answer was always No. And the next question was – Can you love yourself for not being able to love yourself as you are now? No.

麥克:  我記得多年前在80年代讀過一本書,蓋伊.韓德里克斯寫的「學習愛你自己」。裏面我唯一弄懂的事是 你能愛你現在的自己嗎? 我的回答總是「不能」。然後它問下一個問題 你能愛那個「你不愛的現在的自己」嗎? 「不能」。

A: I like that (laughing).

艾妮塔:  我喜歡這個說法 (笑聲)

M: Like if I got like four deep. I realized when the question was - Could you love yourself for not being able to love yourself for not being able to love yourself for not being able to love yourself for where you are now? Yeah, I can do that.

麥克:  我一直回答到第四層。當它問到  你能愛那個「你不愛的那個」「你不愛的那個」「你不愛的現在的自己」嗎? 我終於明白了,是的,我能。

A: I am going to try that. I love that. (laughing) I haven’t heard of this book. That’s great, something for me to look up. I love that.

艾妮塔:  我也要試試看。我喜歡這個說法 (笑聲)。我沒聽過這本書,太好了,我可以查查看。我喜歡這個說法。

M: For me, the idea that really resonates in that one is - this is exactly where you are meant to be, right here, right now, experiencing exactly what you are experiencing. Tomorrow we talk about ego, one of the myths in her book is that spiritual people don’t have egos. So tomorrow we talk about that difference between ego and egotistical, and why we have egos. So I think you will enjoy that. Again, you can find out more at anitamoorjani.com and you can order the book “What If This Is Heaven – How Our Cultural Myths Prevent Us from Experiencing Heaven On Earth”  at all book sellers near you.

麥克:  對我來說,這裏真正的重點在於,你本該在此時此刻 - 這裏、現在 - 經歷你正在經歷的事。明天我們會談一談「自我」。艾妮塔書裏的一個迷思是,有修行的人沒有自我。明天我們會談「自我」和「自我中心」的區別,以及為什麼我們需要自我。我想你們會喜歡的。讓我重覆一下,你們可以到anitamoorjani.com找到更多的訊息,並且可以在各大書局買到她的書「也許這裏就是天堂   - 文化迷思阻斷了人間天堂之路」(暫譯)


 * Judy H 譯 *


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關於艾妮塔.穆札尼
2006年艾妮塔在與癌症纏鬥四年後陷入臨終昏迷。在醫生努力搶救之際,她進入了瀕死體驗,在鬼門關前她明白了生命的真相: 天堂不是一個地方,而是一個境界。當她醒來恢復意識後,她奇蹟似地復原,並在幾星期內完全康復 ! 從此她跟隨內心的呼召和全世界分享她驚人的故事和上天的啟示。這個最重要的啟示是: 「愛你自己如同你生命之所繫」,而這的確是事實。她寫了兩本書:「死過一次才學會愛」和「死過一次才學會愛自己: 原來,此生即是天堂」,並仍在持續創作中。讀者可以從她這段演講錄影了解她的背景、經歷和啟示


About Anita Moorjani
In 2006, Anita fell into a coma as her 4-year struggle with cancer was coming to an end. While doctors rushed to attend to her frail body, she entered into a near-death experience (NDE) where she discovered one of life’s greatest truths: Heaven is not a destination; it’s a state of being. When she regained consciousness, her cancer miraculously healed and she was free of disease within weeks! Since then, she’s heeded the call to share this powerful story—and divine lesson—with the world. The one most important lesson she learned from her unique experience is: “Love yourself like your life depends on it” and it does. She is the author of two books : “Dying To Be Me” and “What If This Is Heaven - How Our Cultural Myths Prevent Us from Experiencing Heaven on Earth” and is working on her third one. You can watch this video to learn more about her, her NDE and the lessons she shares. 


Anita's website, Facebook page and radio show:
http://www. anitamoorjani.com
http://www.facebook.com/Anita.Moorjani
http://www.hayhouseradio.com/#!/host/anita-moorjani

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What If This Is Heaven (by Anita Moorjani)


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  (視頻) 艾妮塔.穆札尼 - 人間天堂之路 (中文字幕)


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